AMA with DeBio
Introduction with DeBio
Riswan Rasheed:
Q1. What is Debio about and what motivated you guys to develop this product?
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
Here's the big idea: Allow you to Control and Monetize your biomedical data -- anonymously -- and do this on a web3 permissionless platform.
Currently, companies own this set of data. Companies such as 23andme and ancestry.org, governments, and biomedical labs own your KYC and medical data more and more, as centralized entities gain more and more control and create more risk
At the same time, Computer Assisted Drug Design turns this data into large sums of money, an expected total of 18 billion dollars by 2025, which does not flow back to the genetic data owners, to you.
this motivated us to try to find a way to allow people to anonymously get biomedical services and get results that are sovereign to them. while ALSO allowing them to monetize on that set of data
within the last 8 months, we have made that idea real
and it's a practical solution, with a demo already up at demo.debio.network and several hackathon wins under our belt -- including the IPFS bounty for identity and the United Nations SDG bounty at ETHDenver (when we were still using Ethereum)
hope that answers your question
Riswan Rasheed:
Q2. What kind of reports can a user generate anonymously by utilizing the services of Debio ?
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
It can be any kind of report that:
- Is done by a biomedical lab, clinic, or personal genetic testing lab
- Uses samples that can be sampled in a DIY way (e.g., buccal swabs are ok, pinprick blood is ok, drawing blood is not included)
Just to explain futher: we do not need to have our own labs. Instead, we allow labs to collaborate with us and receive samples (and funds) from anonymous users. Sort of like a biomedical VPN.
For the labs, we are a storefront for their biomedical services.
Riswan Rasheed:
Q3. How does the entire process of a user submitting a sample and getting back the report looks like? And how many labs have till now partnered with Debio ?
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
i will help to answer this with a graphic. This graphic is also in debio.network -- just click "Deck" and then find the slide in question:
Riswan Rasheed:
Check this guys
http://debio.network
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
ok wait i will explain the graphic. 🙂
i will say done when done
Riswan Rasheed:
👍ok
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
Ok, looking at the graph and starting at the left, here are the steps:
- We allow users to send in biomedical samples without KYC, via DeBio.
- DeBio provides instructions for user to source their own sampling kit. This is actually super easy: for genome sampling, it can be just a regular cotton swab, a sample bottle, and an envelope. There has been papers that show that using a regular swab instead of a "medical grade" kit that the other companies use yields the same amount of DNA (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2215016118300128)
- DeBio provides instructions for DIY sampling. For genome sequencing, this can be a simple buccal swab -- swabbing the inside of your cheeks 10x.
- This sample is sent within a sample bottle and an envelope with an anonymous specimen number -- like a Swiss bank account, there are no names here.
-Labs receive the sample, does wetwork and analysis, and sends the genomic data and reports to encrypted IPFS storage that can only be decrypted by the user.
- At this point, the user can just take that genome, knowing full well that no one has his or her KYC and it's not connected to the DNA in any way.
- We give users the option to offset the expensive costs of the testing by allowing users to stake their data into a privacy preserving data marketplace, which aggregates the data and sells it; users get our $DBIO tokens in return.
Riswan Rasheed:
Cool
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
wait... sorry -- i forgot to answer the second part to your question
Q3... And how many labs have till now partnered with Debio ?
We are part of diybio.org -- go to https://sphere.diybio.org/networks/degenics/
This is a network of DIY labs and biotechnologists worldwide.
We also have an ongoing partnership with one lab to do a pilot, and several labs to do a collaboration and onboard them to our platform.
We are really open for any lab to collaborate with us. If you know a lab, contact us!
Riswan Rasheed:
Q4. How does someone acquire $DBIO and what makes sure the token value is appreciated over time so that the holders are benefitted?
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
$DBIO is planning to do IDO at skyward.finance on the NEAR Protocol. We are "following suit" with our relay chain, Octopus Network, which is currently doing an IDO there. You would be able to acquire the tokens there.
If you are interested in being considered for our pre-IDO round, please go to debio.network and click on "Invest" on the menu bar, and fill in the form.
The token value is very connected to the activity of the entire DeBio network ecosystem. In fact $DBIO is sort of an "accumulator" token.
The $DBIO token accumulates value from all OCEAN marketplace activities of our datatokens (initially $GENE, $MED, $EMR). It does so through a permissionless smart contract that swaps OCEAN for ETH and buys back DBIO. This props up and increases the value of DBIO constantly through all marketplace activities.
We actually only have 1 mainnet token, DBIO, which is provided as data staking rewards, validator rewards, and LP rewards.
We have three *data tokens* at launch, which will be put on the Ocean Marketplace to provide access to each aggregated set of data -- thus, these are tokens that allow users to buy access to the data (whether genetics, medical, or EMR data).
Using a permissionless smart contract, we swap the proceeds of the marketplace activities into ETH and then buy back $DBIO tokens. This is done automatically, and props the value of $DBIO.
We are also using $GBIO tokens, which is based on Kilt's decentralized token curated attester model, to attest the labs.
Our platform is anonymous to the users, but the labs need to be attested. (Otherwise you will have fake labs in the ecosystem.) Thus GBIO is not an openly tradable token, and you can only get it if you are a lab, a hospital, or a subject matter expert within the biomedical field.
Riswan Rasheed:
Q5. Can you tell us about some of the ongoing major developments that will come to fruition before the year ends?
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
haha good
Very excited to share about this.
We are implementing several things before the year ends:
- The first MVP algorithm for the data marketplace
- The Kilt Token Curated Attester
- Technical pilots with labs
- User EMR / PHR records uploading into the system, and integrating to the rest of the features.
- TGE (ERC20 bridged with NEAR)
- IDO (planning on Skyward Finance)
- Octopus Mainnet Launch
Community ask questions from Twitter
Riswan Rasheed:
Now Let's move on to the second segment - Selected Twitter Question ☑
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
cool
Riswan Rasheed:
Q1) If the DeBio project has certain aspects in common to what is the field of human health and medicine, why did you decide to implement anonymity instead of briefly opting for KYC for user data, can you explain that to me?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Pirry05Universe/status/1426382821510234112
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
This is a very good question. DeBio provides an *option* for you to interact with the labs and medical facilities instead of interacting directly and relinquishing your data. When you go to ancestry.org or 23andme, they own your data. With DeBio, you can maintain anonymity, own your data, while still being able to monetize the data.
Why? Because centralization of your medical data -- particularly your "DNA KYC Pair" -- is really bad for you. It is bad for the future of humanity, in fact.
If you think #BigTech is bad, wait until you hear about #BigBio.
This is one of the main ideas behind DeBio -- finding a solution that solves the issue of centralization of data within large companies leading into a future #BigBio.
It would be even worse than #BigTech since it will utilize your most private data, your DNA, and use it against you. Insurance companies can discriminate against you based on a future possibility of disease.
There is even discussions about using your DNA to ascertain your suitability for jobs.These issues come about because in these facilities (the private companies, hospitals, labs, and govt health agencies), your DNA is connected to your KYC.
This is the DNA-KYC pair problem, and in our opinion breaking that pair is the most important thing we need to do to prevent the tyranny of #BigBio.
Our solution for this is simple, and is already demonstrable in our demo at demo.debio.network: remove KYC entirely from the platform, while allowing sovereign ownership of data.
Thus, you own your data, while not pairing it to your KYC. Additionally, you may monetize this set of data in a way that flows back to you.
No other technology can allow monetization of your genetic data without any KYC coming into the system.
is there a next question?
Riswan Rasheed:
Soryy I'm just reading that
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
it's ok 🙂
thanks for reading
basically we let people be anonymous because otherwise that data would end up in centralized entities and be misused
a lot like the Cambridge Analytica scandal of Facebook, etc, but applied not to your social media data, but to your genes
we can't have that, so better to have anonymity -- a decoupling between KYC and DNA
sort of a "biomedical VPN"
Riswan Rasheed:
😍👍
Oh great
Q2) Southeast Asia is a very vibrant market and many project developed here so with #debio what do you think about Southeast Asia and do you have any plan to develop here??
https://mobile.twitter.com/himansh30880532/status/1426383009398149123
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
I love SouthEast Asia since I was born here and have been doing business here for years. 🙂
DeBio Network is also set up, fully legally, as DAOGenics, Ltd, in Singapore. You can go ahead and search for us at uen.gov.sg
thus we are deep within SouthEast Asia.
One thing to note though is that we are a global project.
To be clear, the DeBio network is an open marketplace for services and data. This means that any lab throughout the world will be able to register through our Kilt Token Curated Attester model and provide testing services -- genetic testing to medical testing.
we are using a *hyperlocal* model, where only labs in your general geographical area can access you as a user if you are at the phase of sending physical samples. If you already had your genome sequenced, and you only want to retest the genome via DeBio, you can do so internationally.
Thus, from a technical perspective we can have labs and users sign up from anywhere, of course including SouthEast Asia, where we are.
In terms of biz dev and marketing, we do have some focus countries. Those countries are the US, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Poland, and Indonesia.
But, again, we are totally open for all labs, from all over the world.
Riswan Rasheed:
Q3) Clearly NFTs and healthcare are two different things, however, we can't deny the NFT features and use-cases within the blockchain as a whole, so for Debio, would you consider applying NFT technology and healthcare into your system by mixing the two?
https://mobile.twitter.com/0JeanWayne/status/1425032117260492808
Last one in this segment
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
I love NFTs, I consider them sort of my personal interest. I am personally also part of the uniqueone.network of NFT marketplaces btw. 🙂 I am their NFT curator. I am also NFT advisor for marspanda.world and (VERY recently) polkaparty.io
anyway, NFTs can be a key feature in DeBio for *personal* (not aggregated) genomic data monetization. basically minting your own genes in a way that is provably owned by you.
"Mint your genome" would be the rallying cry -- ensure that you own it and can provably have it traced, even up to the physical-to-digital bridge, the lab that did the testing, etc
Unlike our regular model of aggregating genomic data and then selling them through data tokens, a "Genome NFT" would allow you to prove your individual ownership of your genome and even monetize upon it individually (instead of as a collective).
These types of NFTs would be always tracable back to you and provide royalties to you even if you individually sell it.
However, since this is sold *individually* instead of *collectively* as an aggregated data set, the genome would be less private -- even tho it wouldn't be linked to your KYC, people can still perform traffic analysis on that genome NFT and discover it's connected to you.
We are still at research phase for the "minting your genome" concept, but it is an interesting concept that we can pursue.
Riswan Rasheed:
Thanks for the wonderfully detailed answers.
Community ask questions from Website
Riswan Rasheed:
Q1) As stated in the DeBio Network whitepaper, Debio plans to adopt a Sovereign Lab Collaboration such that there will be Joint Products Integrating Services from several labs. I have 2 concerns with this approach:
1. How will users be able to send their DNA samples to any of the sovereign labs without revealing their identity?
2. With several labs involved, how will Debio ensure that there is no data mix-up whilst maintaining the anonymity of genomic data?
Telegram Username: @bigboicity12
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
Answer to both questions, we maintain decentralization and anonymity while allowing people to sample in a DIY way and:
- not creating our own kits
- allowing users to source their own tools to test (see the swab discussion and paper above where it shows that medical grade swabs and regular cotton swabs have the same DNA yield)
- allowing all labs to participate by collecting the samples and doing the wetwork on it on their end.
- using a "hyperlocal" system where you can only send physical samples to labs in your area, but NOT send KYC -- only send your code.
- using an international system where *digital* data can be sent cross borders
- from the last two points, you can see that sampling can be done locally, while analysis can be done internationally. E.g., i can swab myself in Indonesia and get a whole genome sequencing in Jakarta, but then i can check for biomarkers etc via the marketplace and have a Netherlands lab do the analysis. This is collaboration that can never be done before.
Riswan Rasheed:
Q2) I learned that GBIO and DBIO are the two main tokens for governance and reward.which of them serve as Data staking and validator? For ocean protocol, what set of data are generated if a #GENE token is been spin up please?
Telegram Username: @jokerrrr6
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
DBIO will serve as validator rewards, LP rewards, data staking value aggregator, and also user rewards. GBIO is just to ensure that labs that come into the system are real labs and can be "attested" by the Token Curated Attester to be real labs
more reading: https://medium.com/kilt-protocol/rethinking-tcrs-kilts-concept-of-the-token-curated-attester-tca-acc7a5974dbe
for the data part, let me explain via diagram:
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
Explaining these diagrams:
on data staking:
once you receive your data from the platform, anonymously and sovereign to you, you can stake it on our privacy preserving data marketplace -- diagram B. The data marketplace (Ocean Marketplace) mints "datatokens" based on the aggregated dataset. for example, genetic data can be $GENE.
this is ERC20, and connects back to the aggregated dataset through a compute-to-data proxy
- on diagram A, you can see that we have a privacy computing mechanism, where buyers of the data can execute algorithms on the dataset they buy, but without gaining access to the data themselves
so they can propose algorithms (incidents of gene ABC in the female Asian population for example) and send to us, to run and send back the results
Riswan Rasheed:
Q3) DeBio runs in the health sector, therefore of course it requires regulations and experts in the health field (Doctoral or Professor/Scientist) so that everything goes well.
The important question, does DeBio have permits and regulations from institutions or governments to run Business and DNA Tests? Do you have a professional, qualified, and expert team in their respective fields, especially in the health sector?
Telegram Username: @uyensu01
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
Our team includes:
Here are all of our advisors, also visible on our website:
Dr. rer. Nat Marselina Irasonia Tan
Researcher specializing in molecular and cellular biology in the biomedical science field. Experienced in cancer biology, immunology, and whole genome sequencing research.
dr. Agus Mutamakin, M.Sc
CIO of a major govt-owned hospital in Indonesia and a member of the healthcare informatics technical committee of the National Standards Bureau along with the National Telemedical Program with 15 years of experience.
dr. Hendy Wijaya, M.Biomed
Researcher with a scientific specialty in biochemistry, nutrition, genetics, and metabolic disease.
Popi Septiani, PhD
Researcher specializing in genomics and bioinformatics. Experienced in genomic data analysis and transcriptomics in the medical and agriculture fields.
Karlia Meitha, Ph.D
Researcher in the molecular biology field with interest in genome editing and the small RNAs application to support sustainable living. Writes scientific articles regarding plants, within the molecular and physiology field.
dr. Theza Pellondo'u, Sp.KF
Experienced in medical forensics, medicolegal, and bioethical fields, including assisting to solve criminal cases and ethical problems within the medical field. Previously the Chairman of Law and Ethics for a private hospital in Jakarta.
dr. Kresna Sucandra, MD
An anesthesiologist, intensivist, lecturer at medical school, and medical clinics co-founder. On the tech side, works as a blockchain development engineer and startup co-founder. Actively contribute to the blockchain ecosystem in Polkadot, Bit.Country and Covalent Ambassador program.
see debio.network/team for details
Our business license in Singapore is actually for RESEARCH AND EXPERIMENTAL DEVELOPMENT ON BIOTECHNOLOGY, LIFE AND MEDICAL SCIENCE (72101).
The license can be seen here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17tUll-4d10rfEFzEnt9-FT1DXrKt7Mwu/view?usp=sharing
Our company registration can be seen as DAOGenics, Ltd., and can be searched in https://uen.gov.sg
additionally, we are a *platform* for the data and services. we allow regular labs to sign up to our platform. and only licensed labs can sign up, because of our Kilt.io TCA model.
Live Questions answered by DeBio
1)Ashik:
A strong community not only brings interesting ideas for the project but also attracts big partners. So how does your project hire people with blockchain experience? And do you plan to hire people with blockchain experience?
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
we already have a team with 4-5 years of blockchain technical experience, and our advisors include people already in the crypto space from the early days of bitcoin.
We are also helped by the Blocksphere team, who are our technology partners in implementing DeBio.
Blocksphere has been in the Blockchain space for 4 years, and has done several projects in the space, from government projects, crowdfunding projects, even banking projects. From carbon credit tracking, to cross border transfers, to supply chain, and distributed identity. For example, they did carbon credit tracking with NFTs -- in 2018.
2)James:
What does the term Hyperledger Besu means and in what was dies DeBio utilize IPFS?
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
We don't use Hyperledger Besu for DeBio. You might have seen this phrase in one of our key developers, Lydia, who is Hyperledger Besu certified.
Hyperledger Besu is a Consensys-led part of the Hyperledger tech stack and is unrelated to DeBio.
DeBio uses IPFS primarily to store the reports and genome of the user. IPFS is a public network, so before we put the data in, we encrypt it with the user's public key, so that only the user can decrypt it.
3)dian airlangga:
SELAMAT MALAM =)
Mbak Pandu...
Anda menyebutkan bahwa Anda telah menggunakan model "hiperlokal", Bisakah Anda menjelaskan lebih lanjut tentangnya? Apakah hanya lab di area geografis umum Anda yang dapat mengakses sebagai pengguna?
Dan jika kita tidak memiliki lab lokal di sekitar kita, apakah mungkin untuk mempertaruhkan sejumlah token untuk meminta layanan tertentu?
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
we are using a "hyperlocal" model, where only labs in your general geographical area can access you as a user if you are at the phase of sending physical samples. If you already had your genome sequenced, and you only want to retest the genome via DeBio, you can do so internationally. But the initial "physical to digital bridge" of transforming samples into reports / genetic sequences are done in that hyperlocal manner. Please note that in the production model users would be able to *request* labs. If you don't have any local labs around you, you can stake a number of tokens to request a certain service. (This feature will be available on the testnet soon.)
4)Ramon Pila:
There are services that allow you to analyze DNA samples, and then cross that information with your database and find relatives or matches. Is it possible to carry out these information crossings with DeBio?
Pandu 🐼 a.k.a Decentricity | CEO, Debio.network:
Good question. It is currently *not* possible to do this in the DeBio model because the data is aggregated and anonymized, so we would not be able to trace the data back to your relative / matches. But if we manage to implement the "genome NFTs" in the future, this might be an application of it.
DeBio is a biomedical infrastructure solution, this is also we are an appchain on the Octopus Network (oct.network). We are an application specific blockchain, not just a dapp.
Thus, future development of DeBio Network can use our existing tech to do other use cases like this.